Jan 12, 2010 View Comments
Bruce Berkowitz on Sears, Leucadia, and Berkshire
The people over at Advisor Perspectives have a great interview with Bruce Berkowitz of the Fairholme Fund which touches on his thoughts regarding Sears Holdings (NASDAQ:SHLD), Leucadia (NYSE:LUK), and Berkshire Hathaway (NYSE:BRK-A). These are three investor favorites all which ran into pessimism by the investor community over the last two years or so.
I thought I would excerpt some of the interview (full interview PDF)
Is deflation – particularly with respect to asset prices – eroding the margin of safety at Sears Holdings?
Deflation eroded the margin of safety, in that real estate values came down as the housing market was destroyed. There is a significant correlation between the housing market and Sears. The answer is yes.
On the other hand, Eddie Lampert was quite astute in the way he handled capital allocation in the last couple of years. In hindsight, you can say it was a mistake for him to buy stock at $150 to $170 – it was a different environment. But by creating a company such that there is significant free cash flow being generated, the company has a huge number of degrees of freedom. If deflation was causing a decline in value and Sears’ shareholders overreacted or very smart people start shorting the stock, then the company has more than enough cash to buy all the shares that Lampert and I don’t own – and together we own over 60% of the company.
It was a real win-win situation, in that I believe it was a temporary condition, but he configured the company for adversity. If you count how much cash he generated in the last few years you will see it. Sometimes it is a little hidden, for example because he had to fill a gap in a pension fund liability because the market turned south and the rules required him to put more money in. He’s also paid off a nice chunk of debt. The company does not have a lot of debt. He has bought back a ton of shares.
If you add up all the money used to do that, it’s a significant amount of free cash.
Berkowitz goes on to talk about Leucadia, which is in some circles described as a mini-Berkshire.
Is the value in Leucadia National affected by the tightness in the credit market? Do they have access to capital at attractive rates, and if so why have they not been more active?
Yes, they have been affected by tightness in the credit markets, but they have access to lots of money. With the right idea they have no issues with access to capital. We would loan money to Leucadia. In this environment, it may not be a lack of ideas; it may be an unwillingness to share. Clearly this environment killed cheap money. Could they still get money on reasonable terms? Absolutely.
You have to have a little blind faith with Leucadia, like with Berkshire Hathaway. You can’t predict what they will do. You measure what they have versus what you have to pay for it, and make a determination as to whether you will get the future for free. Of course, you have to assume the future is going to be good.
Leucadia is difficult for me to peg right now. I think with the way the company is structured now, the investment attractiveness depend on your view of the macro and the timing of it all. I do think though that the company will at least be able to preserve its wealth because of its capable managers, whereas other companies may stumble.
Finally, there is a great bit about the Burlington Northern acquisition and whether it was a good deal for Berkshire Hathaway:
We interviewed Bruce Greenwald, the Director of the Heilbrunn Center for Graham & Dodd Investing at Columbia University in November. He was less than impressed with Berkshire Hathaway’s decision to buy the balance of Burlington Northern they do not already own. You own a good deal of Berkshire Hathaway, what is the value investor’s case for using Berkshire Hathaway stock to buy this company?
Last year I sold all my Berkshire and then I bought back what we now own. Last year I said that you have to take Warren Buffett at his word that he will do a couple of points better than the S&P going forward. And he did. That’s not bad at all. But I believe that we are still of the size where we could do a bit better. But that is absent some type of cataclysmic event – and then we faced this cataclysmic event, which allowed Berkshire to put tens of billions of money that was earning less than 1% to work, to earn 10%.
I can’t see how Burlington Northern was a great deal. The greatness of Berkshire is its deployment of float and profit. They are deploying other people’s money in terms of float – premiums on insurance policies that don’t have to be paid out for years and years. If you are going to use part of that float to pay for an investment, you have to make sure the investment is going to make good money. With Burlington Northern, if you adjust for a buyer with cash and don’t think much more about it, then it was not a great deal. But if you bought it using cheap debt and good chunk of other people’s money and you were highly confident that the company would give you a cost-plus return over a decade, then it’s a good investment.
Borrowing money is a sure way to die. But if you are buying toll booths and roads and regulated industries – pipelines or railroads or electric utilities, where you know you are going to end up with some type of cost-plus pricing – you are going to do very well, given that the actual equity you have in it is low.
It’s like buying a house with a low down payment. If you judge the return after expenses, after taxes, and on the profits on shareholder equity, the return can be two to three times what it looks like to an all-cash buyer.
Be sure to read the entire interview (click here to read more) it is well worth your time and delves into the car rental business and Fairholme’s view on healthcare stocks.
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